last week there were reports of the sad death of a young irish jw, sarah o'leary.
i haven't noticed if anyone else wrote to the irish newspapers, but this is the letter i wrote:
gorey echo, friday 2 dec: "father tells of sorrow on losing sarah" .
skeeter1,
Does the money ever go from the Society to the local congregations?
You mean, in the sense that pigs might fly?
How much do they have in investments anyway?
This page is a starting point:
There are loads more here on JWD...
By the way, welcome to JWD!!
last week there were reports of the sad death of a young irish jw, sarah o'leary.
i haven't noticed if anyone else wrote to the irish newspapers, but this is the letter i wrote:
gorey echo, friday 2 dec: "father tells of sorrow on losing sarah" .
funkyderek,
It is a damning indictment of this religion that the child's life is not the primary issue for the parents, and that even the most devoted JW parents are willing to sacrifice their children in order to follow its rules.
Spot on. You hit the nail on the head.
Any parent who could allow their child to die doesn't deserve to be a parent. Their humanity--never mind their love for their child--ought to override the religions diktats, irrespective of the personal cost to them in terms of disfellowshipping, etc.
Barbara,
I totally agree that, as a community, we should make far greater use of the Letters to the Editor sections of our newspapers.
stillajwexelder,
MONEY - that might make them rethink!
We're on the same wavelength, then!
Pistoff,
Is it fear of sounding extreme that keeps us from calling this what it really is, child sacrifice?
Possibly.
Most statistics support the fact that the majority of witness children leave the religion; on that basis the practice of parents' refusing blood for their minor children is unconscionable.
I didn't realise there were any such statistics. Are they reliable? Is there a web page for them?
From my personal experience and gut instinct, I would agree with you that the majority of JW kids do leave, I was just surprised to learn someone had been able to compile accurate statistics.
Another salient point: if the Watchtower changed it's policy tomorrow, the majority would happily abandon it. This puts the lie to the idea that each individual witness makes this choice based on personal belief and choice.
Absolutely right. Unless, of course, they all get 'new light.'
Simultaneously.
last week there were reports of the sad death of a young irish jw, sarah o'leary.
i haven't noticed if anyone else wrote to the irish newspapers, but this is the letter i wrote:
gorey echo, friday 2 dec: "father tells of sorrow on losing sarah" .
Last week there were reports of the sad death of a young Irish JW, Sarah O'Leary.
I haven't noticed if anyone else wrote to the Irish newspapers, but this is the letter I wrote:
Gorey Echo, Friday 2 Dec: "Father tells of sorrow on losing Sarah" http://www.unison.ie/gorey_echo/stories.php3?ca=38&si=1519384&issue_id=13366 This was a tragic story of the death of a young girl from her injuries in a car accident, complicated by her Jehovah's Witness parent's refusal to consent to a blood transfusion. However, the situation whereby courts make Jehovah's Witness children wards of the State allows their parents to abdicate their responsibility for the consequences of their foolish and misguided beliefs. W hat I thought most telling was when Sarah O'Leary's father said : "It is always a difficult decision to make for any Witness family but, for us, it wasn’t a great test of our faith because we knew that the doctors would have to do this." No doubt the father is sincere when he says it was a "difficult decision," but the harsh reality is there was no decision about it, because as soon as the parents refused to consent to a blood transfusion, they knew the S tate would step in and grant it . And while I've no doubt he meant it when he said it was a "difficult decision," I'll wager he and his wife were extremely grateful to know that the S tate would step in to help their child. How can it be a "difficult decision" when you know for a fact that the State will shield your child from the possibly fatal consequences of your foolishness ? So though the father was no doubt sincere when he said that it was a "difficult dec i sion," he betrayed how he really felt about it when he went on to admit , "it wasn't a great test of our faith." But how much has the State, by requiring the courts to intervene in such decisions and thereby letting Jehovah's Witness parents 'off the hook , ' permitted the Watchtower Society (the Jehovah's Witness headquarters organisation) to perpetuate their 'blood policy' without consequence? While in this instance Sarah sadly died despite receiving a blood transfusion, on other occasions similarly-aged children in similar circumstances have successfully persuaded a court that they fully support their religion's tenets and have therefore been allowed to refuse potentially life-saving treatments. Courts do not usually intervene where adult Jehovah's Witnesses are involved, and newspapers around the world report their deaths with depressing regularity. Individual Jehovah's Witnesses do not independently reach the conclusion that blood transfusions are unscriptural, but do so as a result of being repeatedly told, in the literature of the Watchtower Society, that blood transfusions clearly contravene God's laws in the Bible and the hazards of damaged immunity, infection and disease make them just not worth the risk, anyway. The question therefore arises: a s the corporate ' controlling mind ' behind the teachings that result in thousands of ritual suicides, how much responsibility ought the Watchtower Society bear for the consequent costs of their beliefs, towards society in general and the grieving families in particular? For example, the Watchtower Society urges its followers to request 'non-blood medical management,' which includes injections of erythropoietin, a hugely expensive hormone which, over time, stimulates the body's own production of red blood cells and thus, they reason, reduces the necessity of blood transfusion. Is it reasonable for our health care system to bear this expense? Families lose fathers, mothers and children and the financial impact on the family can be catastrophic. Is it reasonable for our social security system to bear this expense? In addition, families who lose fathers, mothers and children are left to deal with chronic emotional trauma, and the financial impact can be equally devastating. Is it again reasonable for our social security system to also bear this expense? Perhaps a law that required such a 'controlling mind' to reimburse our health care system and to provide proper financial compensation for families, might cause those leading such organisations to rethink their irresponsible policies. I fully sympathise with the O'Learys over the tragic loss of their daughter. What they have been through must be a parent's worst nightmare. But I can have no sympathy whatsoever with a religious organisation that deliberately encourages their followers to refuse potentially life-saving medical treatment. Regards,
The addresses I sent it to are:
david walker, ralph walls, samuel herd, mark noumair, lawrence bowman, wallace liverance, anthony morris, leonard pearson, gerrit losch and fred rusk all had a part on the 119th graduating class of the watchtower bible school of gilead.. who is anthony morris?
he is on the governing body.
when did this happen?.
David Walker from the canadian branch. What an odd bird.!!!!!!!!!!
Wow, it is that Dave Walker, is it?
If you think he's odd, you should meet his wife (Doreen??)--totally off her head.
the standard christian story on the bible is that god wrote it to let us humans know what's going on, lay down some rules, and tell us how to get saved from our pitiful state.
as everyone knows, i don't buy any portion of this.
but i have a question for the believers.
Hi SNG, enjoyed your post. It's a deliciously subversive thought, ain't it?
How's your world tour going? Are you still in Japan?
.
if you were granted a wish to change wt's worst features, what would you want changed?
.
Inquisitor,
But I've always wondered why it is compulsory for men to wear suits at all meetings. I mean for an organization that prides itself in being "no part of this world", it sure has an ironic dress code for appearing before the Creator.
Good point. <lol>
katiekitten,
Id make it compulsory for kids to stop on at college
Great idea.
and every lecture attended or piece of homework completed would be counted as field service.
Aren't we being just a little too radical...? <lol>
tijkmo,
but to leave the decision making in the hands of unqualified, untrained, prejudicial, imperfect men is absolutely not on ... the sad thing is the gb know this...and still do not address the issue
Apparently a few years ago, they discussed setting up Regional Judicial Committees, with specially trained elders, but someone on the GB black-balled the idea. I wonder who that could have been?
fullofdoubtnow, vitty,
You're quite right.
Enigma One,
Those horrible chairs that all KH seem to have.
Yup. They buy them in bulk from the Cheap-o Chairs Company. <lol>
the worst seem to be the control they have over the JW's
Sadly, it's true of all cults.
.
if you were granted a wish to change wt's worst features, what would you want changed?
.
Danny,
(1)STOP the family wrecking,cult shame device forced shunning protocol.
I agree their shunning policy is indefensible (except to a brainwashed JW!).
Poztate,
DISFELLOWSHIP....BLOOD....
When you say disfellowshipping, do you mean expelling from the congregation those who don't follow their rules, or do you mean the consequences of disfellowshipping (i.e. shunning and broken families)?
I again agree their blood policies are a combination of the unfathomable (how many JWs understand exactly what is permitted?), the illogical (blood transfusions never will be the same as eating: you can have all the blood transfusions in the world and still starve to death) and the criminal (telling parents to indoctrinate their children to become suicidal martyrs can't be anything less).
Change those two and you have just joined mainstream religion.
I think that may be wishful thinking--they still have plenty of wacky beliefs left, certainly sufficient to still separate them from "the world." :)
arwen,
The lack of unconditional love among the congregation for each other.
Is this caused by the shunning policy? Or just the general judgmentalism among JWs?
What is the root of this unconditional love? I wonder if it might be the strong emphasis the Society places on their myriad of petty rules, that give some the opportunity of proving their own 'righteousness' by their obedience to them, and who then judge others as less 'righteous'?
Outlaw,
Lying to the people they are supposed to be shepperding..Not living up to the same rules they expect the JW`s to live up to..
That's very true. Both boil down to WT's deceptive practices. Can they ever change, though? I guess, only if they ever became so open that there was never a need to lie...
There`s plenty more but I only have so much time..
<lol>
Miss Peaches,
I would get rid of the way the govern. Nah I'd just get rid of them altogether.
<lol>
Soledad,
They don't let the children develop and grow like normal children. They put their lives in danger by encouraging physical abuse and covering up sexual abuse. They'll even let them die by disallowing a life saving blood transfusion. It's an outrage.
Very true, it is an outrage. I'll bet most JW kids "brought up in the truth" have been damaged, psychologically even if not physically.
I guess it doesn't happen to a large percentage of JW parents, but I wonder, of those whose kids are told they need blood now or they'll die, how many can hold on to their JW tenets and have to rely on a court order to save their kid's life? This is where it gets really scary, that they would put obedience to 'God's organization' ahead of love for their own flesh and blood.
.
if you were granted a wish to change wt's worst features, what would you want changed?
.
If you were granted a wish to change WT's worst features, what would you want changed?
in a post a couple of months ago, i copied a scan of the form a judicial committee uses to notify the society that someone has been disfellowshipped or disassociated.
this form was issued in july 2001.
has this form been revised since then?
Crumpet,
fornicating, drinking, loose conduct, drug abuse, smoking, murdering, greed, blaspheming, disobeying parents, idolatry, lying, thief
OK, you win. <lol>
Your form must have had the dreaded "See pages attached"
in a post a couple of months ago, i copied a scan of the form a judicial committee uses to notify the society that someone has been disfellowshipped or disassociated.
this form was issued in july 2001.
has this form been revised since then?
LittleToe,
I'm probably one of the few people who got to fill in his own
I'd think you must be the only person who's got to do that.
I hope you made it memorable! Did you keep a copy? Wanna post it?
Crumpet,
they only have one line for disfellowshipping offences!
Don't worry, there's a whole session in elder's school teaching you to write small...
